National Security Law Today Podcast

The ABA Standing Committee on Law and National Security's podcast. On NSL Today we interview practicing national security attorneys who offer updates and analysis on the hottest topics in the field and career advice for those looking to break in. Listen to the episodes, or subscribe on your favorite podcast service

Latest Episode:

Social Media and National Security Part 1 with Peter Singer and Rachel Levinson-Waldman

Episode 60 | January 17, 2019 (Subscribe | Stream)

Peter Singer is a strategist and Senior Fellow at New America. He was Director of the Center for 21st Century Security at the Brookings Institution and has written six books on different aspects of modern warfare, including LikeWar.

Rachel Levinson-Waldman is Senior Counsel at the Brennan Center’s Liberty and National Security Program and previously worked on First Amendment and academic freedom as counsel to the American Association of University Professors.

This episode references:

Previous Episodes:

The rule of law and technical innovations with Luke Dembosky

Episode 59 | January 10, 2019 (Subscribe | Stream)

Luke Dembosky is a partner at Debevoise & Plimpton and co-chair of the firm's Cybersecurity & Data Privacy practice. He previously served as Deputy Assistant Attorney General for National Security at the Department of Justice. He was also the Deputy Chief for Litigation in the Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section and spend two years at the U.S. Embassy in Moscow.

This episode references:


Third Party Consent in the Digital Age with Jamil Jaffer

Episode 58 | December 20, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

Jamil Jaffer is the founder of the National Security Institute at George Mason University and is a regular on the Steptoe Cyberlaw Podcast. He previously served as Associate White House Counsel to President George W. Bush, Senior Counsel to the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, and Chief Counsel and Senior Advisor to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee

This episode references:


Privacy and National Security in 2018 LIVE with Glenn Gerstell

Episode 57 | December 13, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

Glenn Gerstell is the General Counsel at the National Security Agency.  He previously served as managing partner of the Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy LLP offices in Washington, DC.

This episode references:


Dawn of the Code War LIVE with John Carlin

Episode 56 | December 6, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

John Carlin is a partner at Morrison & Foerster. He served Assistant Attorney General for the U.S. Department of Justice’s (DOJ) National Security Division (NSD) and as Chief of Staff to then-FBI Director Robert S. Mueller.

This episode references:


Supplying and Supporting US Troops with Diana Banks

Episode 55 | November 29, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

Diana Banks is Senior Counsel at the American Bankers Association. She previously served as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Force Education and Training in the Office of the Under Secretary for Defense for Personnel and Readiness and as a Special Assistant to the Acting Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness in the Department of Defense.

This episode references:


Foreign influence campaigns from Nazis to FARA Part I and Part II with Bradley Hart

Episode 53 | November 8, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream) and Episode 54 | November 15, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

Bradley W. Hart is an assistant professor at California State University, Fresno. He completed his PhD at Churchill College, Cambridge University, and is the author or co-author of three books. His latest book is Hitler's American Friends: The Third Reich's Supporters in the United States (2018). 

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Sleepless in Cyberspace: Navigating the Threat Landscape LIVE

Episode 52 | October 18, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

This event features speakers Robert Litt, of counsel at Morrison & Foerster and former General Counsel of ODNI; Paul Rosenzweig, founder of Red Branch Consulting and Senior Fellow at the R Street Institute; Lucy Thomson founder of Livingston PLLC; and moderated by Josh Snavely the Dean of the Langston University School of Business

This episode references:


The Reliability and Risks of Blockchain Part I and Part II with Steve Bunnell

Episode 50 | October 4, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream) and Episode 51 | October 11, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

Steve Bunnell is a partner at O'Melveny & Meyers. He served as the General Counsel of the Department of Homeland Security and as Chief of the Criminal Division at the US Attorney’s Office in Washington, DC.

These episode reference:


Cybersecurity Wake Up Call LIVE at the Annual Meeting

Episode 49 | September 27, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

Live from a panel at the ABA Annual Meeting "Cybersecurity Wake Up Call: The Business You Save May Be Your Own"

This episode references:


Predicting the Future of security with National Security Law Today

Episode 48 | September 20, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

The moderators reviewed episodes on FARA, CFIUS, security clearnaces and space law that Naitonal Seuciry Law Today recorded over the last year to prepare for the upcoming 28th Annual Reivew of the Field of National Security Law Conference in November.

Our recommended articles are:


Attacks on Our Institutions of Democracy LIVE at the ABA Annual Meeting

Episode 47 | September 13, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

The panel speakers are Judge Margaret Sweeney, United States Court of Federal Claims; Suzanne Spaulding, Senior Advisor at CSIS, and Elizabeth Rindskopf Parker, former Exectuive Director of the State Bar of California. Moderated by Harvey Rishikof, Chair of the ABA Standing Committee on Law and National Security Advisory Committee

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Touring the Arctic with Lindsay Rodman

Episode 46 | September 6, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

Lindsay Rodman is the Council on Foreign Relations International Affairs Fellow at the University of Ottawa Centre for International Policy Studies. She was an associate at Arnold & Porter before joining the US Marine Corps, where she served as Director for Defense Policy and Strategy at the National Security Council. She is currently a major in the Marine Corps Reserves

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How do we get to sustainable cybersecurity? Part I and Part II with Megan Stifel

Episode 44 | August 23, 2018 and Episode 45 | August 30, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream Part 1 | Stream Part 2)

Megan Stifel is the Cybersecurity Policy Director at Public Knowledge and the founder of Silicon Harbor Consultants as well as a non-resident fellow at the Atlantic Council. She previously served in the Department of Justice as Director for Cyber Policy in the National Security Division, and as counsel in the Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section of the Criminal Division.

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Human Rights are a National Security Concern Part I and Part II with Elisa Massimino

Episode 42 | August 9, 2018 and Episode 43 | August 16, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream Part 1 | Stream Part 2 )

Elisa Massimino is a Senior Fellow at the Carr Center for Human Rights Policy. She previously served as the President and CEO of Human Rights First.

This episode references:


President Carter: The White House Years LIVE with Ambassador Stuart Eizenstat

Episode 41 | August 2, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

Ambassador Stuart Eizenstat is Senior Counsel at Covington & Burling and served as chief White House domestic policy adviser to President Jimmy Carter and as Ambassador to the European Union.

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Protecting Democratic Institutions Part I and Part II with Suzanne Spaulding and Elizabeth Rindskopf Parker

Episode 39 | July 19, 2018 and Episode 40 | July 26, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream Part 1 | Stream Part 2)

Suzanne Spaulding is a Senior Fellow at CSIS and the former Undersecretary of the National Protection and Programs Directorate (NPPD) at the Department of Homeland Security.

Elizabeth Rindskopf Parker is the Dean Emerita of Pacific McGeorge Law School and a trustee at the MITRE corporation. She is the former Executive Director of the State Bar of California and General Counsel of the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency.

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Becoming a National Security Entrepreneur with Francis Hoang

Episode 38 | July 12, 2018  (Subscribe | Stream)

Francis Hoang is a partner at FH+H and Chief Strategy Officer at MAG Aerospace. He previously served as an Assistant US Attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia, as Associate Counsel to the President of the United States and as Executive Officer of a U.S. Army Special Forces Company in Afghanistan.

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The Internet of Things and Supply Chains LIVE with Joyce Corell

Episode 37 | July 5, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

Joyce Corell is the Assistant Director, Supply Chain and Cyber Directorate, National Counterintelligence and Security Center.

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From National Security to the ABA with Jack Rives

Episode 36 | June 28, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

Jack Rives is the Executive Director of the American Bar Association. He served in the US Air Force for 33 years as a military attorney, and was The Judge Advocate General (TJAG) of the Air Force before retiring.

This episode references:

What is US cybersecurity policy without a cyber coordinator? with Paul Rosenzweig

Episode 35 | June 21, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

Paul Rosenzweig is a Senior Fellow at the R Street Institute, a Lawfare Contributor, a Senior Advisor at the Chertoff Group and a Professorial Lecturer at the George Washington University Law School. He served as Deputy Assistant Secreatary for Policy at the Department of Homeland Security. 

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The Case for Federal Laws on Domestic Terrorism with Mary McCord

Episode 34 | June 14, 2018 (Subscribe |Stream)

Mary McCord is a visiting professor at Georgetown University Law Center and a Senior Litigator from Practice at the school's Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection. She served as the Acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security and the Principal Deputy Assistant Attorney General for the National Security Division at the U.S. Department of Justice.

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An Overview of Government Oversight Part I and Part II with Mieke Eoyang

Episode 32 | May 31, 2018 and Episode 33 | June 7, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream Part I | Stream Part II)

Mieke Eoyang is the Vice President for National Security Program at Third Way. She has also worked as the Subcommittee Staff Director on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and a Professional Staff Member on the House Armed Services Committee.

This episode references:


Threats, Norms and Cyber Mercenaries with Tim Maurer

Episode 31 | May 24, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

Tim Maurer is the co-director of the Cyber Policy Initiative and a fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. He has also worked with the Global Commission on the Stability of Cyberspace and the Global Commission on Internet Governance. His book on state power and proxy actors in cyberspace is Cyber Mercenaries

This episode references:

The Future of Digital Intelligence LIVE at the Lawyer Jurga

Episode 30 | May 17, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

The panel features moderator Jude James Baker, Chair of the Standing Committee on Law and National Security, and panelists Peter Weinberger of Google, Chris Inglis of Paladin Capital Group and former Deputy Director of the Naitonal Security Agency, and W. Renn Gade of the Defense Intelligence Agency.

The panelists’ recommended articles are:


Company Man Part I and Part II with John Rizzo 

Episode 28 | May 3, 2018 and Episode 29 | May 10, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream Part I | Stream Part II)

John Rizzo is senior counsel at Steptoe & Johnson, LLP. Prior to joining the private sector he served in the Office of the General Counsel in the CIA for 34 years, including as Chief Legal Officer. His memoir is called Company Man: Thirty Years of Controversy and Crisis at the CIA

These episode reference:

The Use of Force in North Korea: The Legal Process

Episode 27 | April 26, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

The panel features moderator Judge James E. Baker, Chair of the Standing Committee on Law and National Security, and panelists Brian Egan of Steptoe & Johnson, former State Department Legal Adviser(and Episode 2) and BG Rich Gross (USA, ret.) of Janus Global Operations and former legal counsel to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

This episode references:

Watch the Skies with Kevin Pomfret 

Episode 26 | April 19, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream )

Kevin Pomfret is a partner at Williams Mullen. He is the founder and executive director of the Centre for Spatial Law and Policy, a member of the National Geospatial Advisory Committee and a fomer satellite image analyst.

This episode references:

Artificial Intelligence LIVE at the Annual Conference

Episode 25 | April 12, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

The panel features moderator Lala Qadir of Covington & Burling, and panelists Gregory Akers of Cisco Security and Trust Organization, Michael Page of OpenAI (and Episode 23), LtCol Alan Schuller of the Naval War College (and Episode 19), and David Vladeck of Georgetown University.

This episode references:

Brains and Bombers with Dina Temple-Raston

Episode 24 | April 5, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

Dina Temple-Raston is a counterterrorism correspondent at NPR, and the author of four books including A Death in Texas and The Jihad Next Door. Her new podcast on brain development What Were You Thinking is available on Apple Podcast and on Audible at audible.com/adolescentbrain.

This episode references:

Looping Lawyers in on AI with Michael Page and the Steptoe Cyberlaw Cast

Episode 23 | March 29, 2018  (Subscribe | Stream )

Michael Page is the Policy and Ethics Advisor at OpenAI, where he focuses on the long term political and ethical implications of advanced AI systems. He was previously with Williams & Connelly LLP and the Public Citizen Litigation Group.

Stewart Baker is a partner at Steptoe & Johnson, the former chair of the ABA Standing Committee on Law and National Security, and the host of the Steptoe Cyberlaw cast.

This episode references:

So What is the Standing Committee? Minisode with the Moderators

Episode 22 | March 15, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

The Standing Committee on Law and National Security is the oldest committee in the ABA. It has a sustained committment to educating the Bar and the public on national security and rule of law issues.

The ABA resources and events discussed in this episode are:

Security's Final Frontier with Dr. Henry Hertzfeld

Episode 21 | March 8, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

Dr. Henry Hertzfeld is a Professor at the George Washington Univeristy's Elliott School of International Affairs in the Space Policy Institute and at the GWU Law school. He served as an economic and policy analyst as NASA and the National Science Foundation.

This episode references:

Cybersecurity: The Intersection of Law, Policy and Technology with Melissa Hathaway

Episode 20 | March 1, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

Melissa Hathaway is the president of Hathaway Global Strategies and a cybersecurity senior advisor at the Harvard Kennedy School, working on MIT–Harvard Project on Technology, Security, and Conflict in the Cyber Age (Project Minerva). She led the Cyberspace Policy Review for President Barack Obama and the Comprehensive National Cybersecurity Initiative (CNCI) for President George W. Bush.

This episode references:

Are we ready for Autonomous Weapons? with Alan Schuller

Episode 19 | February 22, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

Lieutenant Colonel Schuller (USMC) is Associate Director of the Stockton Center for the Study of International Law at the U.S. Naval War College, where his research is focused on autonomy in weapon systems. LtCol Schuller is a Fellow with the Georgetown Center on National Security and the Law. He served as an artillery officer before becoming a judge advocate. 

This episode references:

The Criticality of Communications with Craig Silliman

Episode 18 | February 15, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

Craig Silliman is Executive Vice President for Public Policy and General Counsel at Verizon. He has served in senior roles at Verizon for years, and previously worked at the law firm of Collier, Shannon, Rill & Scott and was taught telecommunications regulation at American University.

This episode references:

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act LIVE at the Annual Conference

Episode 17 | February 8, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

The panel features moderator Robert Litt of Morrison & Foerster and panelists Alexander Joel of the Office of Civil Liberties, Privacy and Transparency in ODNI, Laura Donohue of Georgetown Law, Elizabeth (Liza) Goitein of the Brennan Center for Justice, Susan Hennessey of Lawfare and Jamil Jaffer of GMU Antonin Scalia Law School.

This episode references:


Answering Tough Questions with Ken Wainstein

Episode 16 | February 1, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

Ken Wainstein is a partner at Davis Polk. He served at the president's Homeland Security Advisor, as Assistant Attorney General for National Security in the U.S. Department of Justice, and as General Counsel of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

This episode references:


Touring the Arctic with Lindsay Rodman

Episode 15 | January 15, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

Lindsay Rodman is the Council on Foreign Relations International Affairs Fellow at the University of Ottawa Centre for International Policy Studies. She was an associate at Arnold & Porter before joining the US Marine Corps, where she served as Director for Defense Policy and Strategy at the National Security Council. She is currently a major in the Marine Corps Reserves

This episode references:

CFIUS 101: Foreign Control and US Oversight with David Fagan

Episode 14 | January 18, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

David Fagan is a partner at Covington & Burling and co-chair of the firm's cross border investment and national security practice. He previously served as a CIA analyst before joining Covington and becoming a Chambers rated lawyer and the American Lawyer Dealmaker of the Year for 2016.

This episode references:

Defend your Data with Jill Rhodes

Episode 13 | January 11, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

Jill Rhodes is Vice President & CISO at Option Care, a multibillion-dollar healthcare company. She previously served as a Foreign Service Officer as US AID and worked in the Office of the Director of National Intelligence in roles including the deputy chief of staff for the ODNI and the assistant deputy director of national intelligence for education and training.

This episode references:

Trials, Tribunals and Tribulations with Xander Meise

Episode 12 | January 4, 2018 (Subscribe | Stream)

Alexandra (Xander) Meise is a partner at Mitchell, Silberberg & Knupp where she works in international disputes on treaties, access to natural resources and conflicts whether commercial or governmental. She also teaches International Human Rights Law at the Georgetown University Law Center.

This episode references:

Bringing Terrorism to Trial Part I and Part II with Steven Pelak

Episode 10 | December 21, 2017 and Episode 11 | December 28, 2017 (Subscribe | Stream Part I | Stream Part II)

Steven Pelak is a parter at Holland & Hart, and he served as an Assistant U.S. Attorney in Washington D.C. for 18 years and in the Justice Department on economic sanction and export control enforcement.

This episode references:

Thieves from Abroad: The threat of intellectual property theft with Adam Hickey and David Laufman

Episode 9 | December 14, 2017 (Subscribe | Stream)

Adam Hickey is the Deputy Assistant Attorney General (DAAG) for National Asset Protection in the National Security Division U.S. Department of Justice where he combats national security threats from cybercrime and economic espionage. David Laufman is the chief of the Counterintelligence and Export Control Section as NSD where he investigates and prosecutes economic espionage, cybercrime, export control and sanctions violations.

This episode references:

Dual Use and 3D Printers with Chris Timura 

Episode 8 | November 30, 2017 (Subscribe | Stream)

Christopher Timura is of counsel at Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher where he works in national security, trade and foreign policy as well as corporate social responsibility.

This episode references:

Keeping America Safe with Joel Brenner

Episode 7 | November 16, 2017 (Subscribe | Stream)

Joel Brenner is a Senior Fellow at MIT. He served as head of U.S. Counterintelligence under the Director of National Intelligence and as Inspector General of the National Security Agency.

This episode references:


Rewriting the Rules with Mark Zaid

Episode 6 | November 2, 2017 (Subscribe | Stream)

Mark Zaid is the managing partner of The Law Offices of Mark Zaid. He is also the founder of the James Madison Project and one of the founders of Whistleblower Aid.

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The Annual Review Conference Minisode with Caroline Krass

Episode 5| October 20, 2017 (Subscribe | Stream)

Caroline Krass of Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher, former General Counsel at the CIA, joined us for a short episode about the upcoming 27th Annual Review of the Field of National Security Law Conference. 


Weaponizing the Dollar with Adam Smith

Episode 4 | October 19, 2017 (Subscribe | Stream)

Adam Smith is a partner at Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher. He served Senior Advisor to the Director of the U.S. Treasury Department's Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) and served on the National Security Council.

This episode references:

Full Disclosure with Amy Jeffress 

Episode 3 | October 5, 2017 (Subscribe |Stream)

Amy Jeffress is a partner at Arnold & Porter. She served as the Justice Department Attache to the U.S. Embassy in London and held senior positions in the U.S. Justice Department.

This episode references:

The Summer of Sanctions with Brian Egan

Episode 2 | September 21, 2017 (Subscribe |Stream)

Brian Egan is a partner at Steptoe & Johnson. He served as the Legal Adviser to the State Department and held posts in the White House, the National Security Council and the Treasury Department

This episode references:


Private Practice and Public Service with Raj De

Episode 1 | September 7, 2017 (Subscribe | Stream)

Raj De is a partner at Mayer Brown. He served as the General Counsel of the National Security Agency and counsel to the 9/11 Commission, and has held senior appointments in the White House, the Department of Justice (DOJ) and the Department of Defense (DOD).

This episode references: