Your Time as Chair
The A&SL: What have you most enjoyed as Forum Chair so far?
Thank you for those kind words, and I would say thank you to the Forum members for embracing what could be some risk-taking ideas, including the mechanical bull at the Dallas conference. I have been honored for the opportunity to place my stamp to “connect, inspire, and lead” the Forum into the future with a focus on “disruption and evolution”––my favorite thing to do! We have utilized the strategic plan developed by my predecessor Chairs which set in motion the opportunity to disrupt and evolve with important improvements to the Forum.
The new organizational structure for the Forum (see chart below) has been instrumental and has enhanced the Forum’s leadership efficiency and efficacy. (The chart provided below illustrates the changes to the Forum’s organization.) Part of that is shrinking the Governing Committee (GC) to nine specific roles that support the other functions within the Advisory Council. It was the first time to have an organizational design with specific roles and responsibilities. Previously, the oversight for all the roles was placed on the Chair and/or the Forum’s Director. With a smaller GC, we meet monthly for an hour with a smaller group that enables us to address and resolve issues more expeditiously, compared to the larger group that convened on a quarterly basis.
In addition, the Advisory Council having a tie to the GC allows for more support for each of those roles. We also changed some roles with the Forum to focus on new or expanded areas in our industry or gaps we found as we work to increase the scope of the Forum. New practice committees on advanced air mobility, revised from just drones, airlines from consumer and competition, and a new manufacturing practice group. We also added new roles to focus on the importance of communications and closer ties to the ABA with the ABA Chair Liaison. We also are lucky to have a fantastic Board of Governors Liaison, the Honorable Linda Murnane, who is a great contributor and supporter of the Forum.
Seeing the organization evolve has been fulfilling in my role as Chair. Jack Rossi, my successor who was key in designing the strategic plan, will carry the torch next and likely have suggestions after our first two years of learning. Stay Tuned!
The A&SL: What more would you like to do/accomplish during your tenure? One goal I feel very strongly about is enhancing educational and networking opportunities for our membership, which is one of the pillars in the strategic plan. Our four conferences each year are informative and valuable both for networking and education. However, we aim to provide even more toward those goals, especially educational content.
Our The Air & Space Lawyer (The A&SL) publications are another platform we can leverage more in its digital format where time to publish is greatly reduced. For example, we are now able to submit featured articles (such as this one!) for digital distribution once ready, as opposed to waiting for several articles to be completed as part of a quarterly publication. We will continue to publish quarterly The Air & Space Lawyer publications, with a compilation of articles, but featured articles can be released sooner. This more flexible approach is welcomed. I’ll also plug our Aviation Regulation in the United States comprehensive book, which is also now available digitally (link provided here.)
Another opportunity to increase our education and networking is through the subject-matter practice committees. We are seeking to grow these committees, so please ensure that you sign up for committees either at the upcoming conferences or by reaching out to Forum Director Dawn Holiday, [[email protected]], to indicate your interest. These committees will provide additional networking by your participation and are great platforms for future Forum leadership roles.
Additional content will be created by the Practice Committees through webinars, lunch-n-learns and utilizing the Forum updated website. Both Space and Finance host stand-alone conferences, while the other committees will host a virtual webinar or in-person lunch-and-learns each year. The Advanced Air Mobility (AAM) Committee held a webinar in October, and the Manufacturing, Maintenance, Technology (MMT) Committee had one this past February. Cargo, General Aviation, Sustainability, Airlines, and Airports committees will schedule theirs soon.
The Forum’s updated web pages launch this spring and will allow us to post information in the subject-matter practice areas including webinar recordings, The A&SL articles, and CLE materials. We seek to provide more value to our Forum members, including allowing them to contribute content and use the web pages as a resource for finding educational materials. We will start this ball rolling this year, but more will come with Jack’s leadership.
Revolutionary changes at ABA Air and Space Law Forum
The A&SL: During your time as Chair the Forum has revised many long-standing practices for Forum meetings, e.g., changes to the Governing Committee, the speaker-sponsor dinner, what is covered by certain sponsorship categories, etc. Can you share with the readership why these changes were made and how they have helped modernize how the Forum operates?
A key focus of my tenure as Chair has been to disrupt and evolve. Changing the format of our annual conference to be more inviting and inclusive–-utilizing different presentation styles rather than panel after panel—and also to ensure there was ample time and space for all to network.
Our sponsorships are critical to the Forum for our scholarships and to put on our programs. We have focused on finding new sponsors in regions we host our events or new areas of the industry as well as new ways for our regulars to sponsor. We replaced what was the speaker-sponsor dinner at the annual conference with a reception on Day 1 for all attendees to connect, given that networking is a key part of being in-person. In addition, our partner firms host hospitality suites or open-air options, and we place importance on having fun and inviting interactive venues with music, flowers, a mechanical bull, a “cow suit,” beach balls, and mariachis–-all of which the sponsors support.
Another “evolution” was to expand out of traditional communication avenues. We have transitioned this publication to be entirely digital (discussed more below). The new webpage design will allow us to provide more educational materials throughout the year to an audience beyond conference attendees.
Your Career: career at airlines, including CO and UA, and current VP/GC role at Panasonic Avionics
The A&SL: You spent more than two decades combined at Continental Airlines and United Airlines in various legal roles, beginning as a corporate attorney and reaching associate general counsel in your last role. Was your first job out of law school with Continental Airlines? If so, how did you find that job and/or why did you choose to pursue it?
Many know my story, that at the age of 16, I wanted to be an international airline lawyer. Why? In high school I spent my summers in Japan where my stepfather was the executive leader for the Asia business for Northwest Airlines. Over the summers I did station visits with him throughout Asia which opened my eyes to many things, including the business of aviation and the importance of airlines connecting the world. At the same time L.A. Law was my favorite show, and who didn’t want to be Susan Dey from The Partridge Family (dating myself big time!)!
I commenced my aviation career right out of college as legal assistant at Northwest Airlines (NWA), then obtained a full-time role as a law clerk while I attended law school at night. During that period, I worked for Richard Anderson (former Chair of Northwest Airlines and Delta Airlines) who was a key influencer for me as I started my career. In my NWA roles, I also worked closely with other industry legends like Doug Parker, Dave Siegel, Ben Hirst, and Doug Steenland–-before I was a lawyer, I had front-row seats and often supporting roles in the “real world” of an airline. I never looked back.
The A&SL: What did you find most interesting about working for major US airlines? What did you find most challenging?
I can truly say that there was never a dull day with the variety of challenges in this high-profile industry, which is global and 24/7/365. You can easily be on the front page of the newspaper, so looking for risks and problem-solving was a daily activity. It was exciting for someone curious like me who liked to learn, and was in a business where there were never enough lawyers and I handled matters that more senior lawyers would normally tackle. I have done literally every aspect of the laws in the commercial passenger airline–-some I liked better than others, ERISA law definitely not my thing.
The most challenging are the many things out of your control, and the most challenging was 9/11 by far due to the intense emotional human and industry impact. Even though we were all in shock like the rest of the world, every day we persevered, and nothing was business as usual. I think anyone working in the industry that day would have the same answer, and my colleagues at United Airlines and American Airlines had to face an even more difficult situation.
The “merger of equals” between Continental and United was also quite challenging as you were integrating two very different companies with different cultures, philosophies, and processes. I took more than two years to make many key decisions, so we were all flying the same direction.
The A&SL: Tell us about your current role as VP and general counsel at Panasonic Avionics—have you found the role to be a significant change after working for commercial airlines? What is your day-to-day like?
My job at Panasonic Avionics is a fantastic combination of my key interest areas: mixing aviation, evolving technology for the aerospace industry, and the Japan aspect. However, what makes Panasonic Avionics special as a great place to work are the people and culture. We embrace important fundamentals that I learned from my time at Continental, the working together team spirit–-all-hands on deck, with open, honest, and direct communications, and always using dignity and respect.
Every day I am excited to go to the office. I am fortunate enough to be part of a great team of lawyers and professionals who are trusted advisors and partners within the business. Each day starts with our daily stand-up (DSU) where the leaders of the company share the top issues of the day across all aspects of the business and an industry news update. The primary purpose of the call is to identify “blockers and help as needed” to quickly problem solve. The DSU allows me and our legal team leaders to know the priorities and pain points and where we need to focus on the legal team to most effectively help to support the business. Legal also has a platform to timely share important legal highlights to the business leaders. In today’s environment where there are a lot of changes communicated in real time in the media, it is often helpful to put things in context.
As an Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM), we manage different issues compared to a commercial airline, but these changes fill the “always learning” and “never a dull day” job requisite for me. Navigating a large matrix organization of Panasonic is different from past roles, as well as the differences of Japanese company, such as the continuous improvement philosophy of Gemba Kaizan. In the legal department this translates to how we can work smarter and not harder in our roles, especially utilizing technology. The Japanese culture that pervades our company is something I understand and enjoy from my time in Japan. I am honored to work for such an iconic Japanese company, and the innovation at Panasonic is awe-inspiring.
The A&SL: The role of GC comes with great responsibility, how do you manage the weight of that responsibility?
The role of General Counsel comes with immense responsibility, but I manage it through a combination of strategic delegation and leveraging the strengths of my team. I believe in fostering a collaborative environment where everyone's expertise is valued and utilized to its fullest potential. This teamwork approach not only lightens the load, but also ensures comprehensive and well-rounded decision-making.
Additionally, I prioritize continuous learning and staying abreast of industry developments, which allows me to anticipate and prepare for potential challenges. The support of trusted advisors, both within and outside the company, is also crucial in navigating complex legal landscapes. Finally, maintaining a healthy work-life balance and nurturing a positive office culture helps in managing stress and staying focused on our goals. Always make time for some levity and fun!
What to expect from upcoming changes in the aviation industry?
The A&SL: As we know, the aviation industry is ever-evolving and we seem to be on the precipice of another significant shift in the industry with respect to innovative technologies, whether it is AI, AAM, alternative fuels, or alternative-powered aircraft (to name a few). What are you most excited about in terms of innovation in the industry?
The past few years have really been a revolution across our industry. At the airline we often said we were a technology company with wings, which is why the work we do at Panasonic Avionics is so important. Our focus on the inflight entertainment and connectivity business is more than the movies on the plane–-today with every passenger captured in their seats for hours, they are “connected” sometimes in multiple ways–-it is now “Engagement Beyond Entertainment” opportunities that we bring. The innovation that’s happened, the adoption of new technologies, the blending of hardware, internet services, and digital apps and services has gone beyond anything the industry has seen before.
On the technology side, I’m fascinated by the advances in the seatback displays. We’ve gone from an industrial design that looked bolted on without much care or thought regarding aesthetics or technical capabilities, to technology that keeps pace with the ground. From 4K OLED displays to Bluetooth to special audio to fast charging of personal devices. Companies like Panasonic Avionics are giving passengers the technologies they expect and need to have for a similar entertainment experience that they enjoy at home.
There is also the introduction of new low-Earth orbit (LEO) satellites into our industry. Panasonic Avionics as one example has been able to show airlines the dramatic effects low latency has on the passenger experience. This low latency is a step change for in-flight connectivity because it is less than 100 milliseconds. At that level of responsiveness and speed, we can now unlock new passenger experiences including seamless support for enterprise applications, live gameplay, video conferencing, VoIP communication, and many others.
Finally, there’s also been tremendous advancements in the types of apps and services that are being deployed onboard aircraft. New 3D moving maps like Panasonic Avionics’ ArcTM solution keep passengers updated on their progress through the skies with live data and options to explore various points of interest along their journey. Exciting new e-commerce solutions are now dynamic with pre-planned or timed food and beverage service, duty-free purchases, special offers from world-renown retailers, airfare promotions, destination services, along with a host of opportunities enabled by dynamic storefronts.
There’s so much more that’s happening, but the ability to deliver an amazing entertainment experience, have it connected in real-time by fast, responsive internet services, and then deliver amazing apps and services to engage the passenger is really what stands out to me.
Recommendations for success in the aviation industry
The A&SL: For a new (or newish) attorney beginning their career in aviation/aerospace law, what advice do you have?
For a new (or newish) attorney beginning their career in aviation/aerospace law, I have several pieces of advice to share:
- Immerse Yourself in the Industry: Understand the intricacies of the aviation and aerospace sectors. This means not only knowing the laws and regulations, but also grasping the business, operational, and technical aspects. Attend industry conferences, join relevant associations, and subscribe to industry publications to stay updated.
- Build a Strong Network: Relationships are crucial in this field. Connect with colleagues, mentors, and industry professionals. Networking can open doors to opportunities, provide support, and offer invaluable insights. Seek out mentors who can guide you and share their experiences.
- Stay Curious and Keep Learning: Aviation and aerospace law is constantly evolving with technological advancements and changes in regulations. Be proactive in continuous learning. Take courses, attend workshops, and pursue certifications that can enhance your knowledge and skills.
- Develop Strong Analytical Skills: The aviation and aerospace industries are complex and require sharp analytical abilities. Work on honing your problem-solving skills and attention to detail. This will help you navigate the legal challenges and provide sound advice to your clients or organization.
- Embrace Challenges and Be Resilient: This field can be demanding, with high stakes and frequently changing dynamics. Be prepared to face challenges head-on and adapt to new situations. Resilience and a positive attitude will help you thrive in this environment.
- Focus on Communication: Clear and effective communication is key. Whether you are drafting contracts, negotiating deals, or presenting cases, being able to convey your points clearly and persuasively is essential. Work on your writing and speaking skills continuously.
- Understand the Global Context: Aviation and aerospace are inherently global industries. Be aware of international laws, treaties, and standards. Understanding the global context will make you a more versatile and valuable attorney in this field.
By embracing these principles, you'll be well-equipped to navigate the exciting and challenging world of aviation and aerospace law. Remember, it's a journey with a flight path of continuous growth and learning, so stay curious and passionate about your work.
The A&SL: Looking back, can you share a pivotal moment that had a profound or big impact on your career?
Law firm versus In-house–-where to start as a lawyer?
My unusual decision upon graduating law school of not working in a law firm and going straight in-house was unusual in that it was a major fork-in-the-road decision. I had to weigh the opportunity of the formal training and development opportunities a law firm provides young lawyers versus staying in-house in the hands-on aviation work that I was so passionate about and enjoyed. While the law firm opportunities presented included aviation work, it would have been at a traditional big firm, associate level. I envisioned being a junior associate without a seat at the table doing hours and hours of research and writing for hours (I dubbed it the “dark side”). Contrast that to the hands-on and leader roles that were more equivalent to senior associate, or even partner-level work, that I had already been doing in-house and expected to continue now as an airline lawyer. While I developed as a lawyer along a different path, I would not change my initial decision today, even though I won’t deny there were times I questioned it. I did forgo some basic training, and I pigeon-holed myself only as an airline lawyer. When I eventually went to the “dark side” at an incredible law firm after 20-plus years in my career, I learned a lot about the business of a law firm and the development of lawyers, both of which are important to understand as an in-house lawyer, especially a general counsel. The firm also provided me with the opportunity to spread my wings and do work while still in aviation/aerospace that was more than matters involving commercial airlines to better prepare me for my future career flight path.